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Central Wasatch Commission (00:01)
Okay, welcome Morgan to the In the Wasatch Podcast. To just introduce yourself, will you just tell us where you’re from, what your hobbies are, and what your career has been like?

Morgan Mingle (00:11)
Yeah, happy to.

So I am originally from Texas. I’m a relatively recent transplant. So I moved out here about three years ago. ⁓ and I, I feel like there’s plenty of Texans that I run into here, which is always fun, but it’s such a big state that I often have to kind of drill down to where I actually grew up, which is the Gulf coast. so coastal area, lots of marshland and lived in Austin for about 10 years before I moved out here. big change geographically, loving being in the mountains.

and having just this incredible access to gorgeous nature. And so my hobbies kind of follow accordingly, right? I love going hiking, I love spending time outside.

There’s some carryovers from Texas. I love swimming, obsessed with it. Looking for a good pool, if you have any recommendations. Love doing board games, wholesome activities are definitely for me.

In terms of career, it honestly is pretty meandering. So I’ve had some zigzags. My first job out of college was actually working in research labs and I did animal behavior studies. So worked primarily with apes and studied how they handled being in captivity. And as I shifted away from research life, I ended up working in travel.

Central Wasatch Commission (01:31)
wow.

Morgan Mingle (01:45)
tourism, working for a company that essentially built curriculum around these family trips where families would take their kids out of school for an entire year and travel around the world. And so I specialized in all of kind of the nature, wildlife experiences, and building out curriculum to really encourage learning and thoughtfulness out of these kids that were, you know, experiencing so many parts of the world for the first time.

And as part of that part of the travel industry, especially really high-end travel, it always kind of nagged me in the back of my mind that there’s a ton of good that comes from tourism, but there’s definitely some impacts.

And they, it’s not that they like ate away at me, but like it was just this nagging thing in the back of my mind. And I always thought, oh man, it would be really nice to go back to grad school, get a master’s and really be able to dig into it. But I never did until the pandemic brought everything to a standstill. And I was like, well, if there was ever a time, it’s probably right now when no one is doing anything and everybody is trapped into their home. And I found

found a program with Harvard that allowed hybrid learning and because it was pandemic times, hybrid learning meant online learning. And I was able to just knock it out while the world was paused. And it was a great process. I feel like I made so many great connections, learned a lot. And a lot of what I was focusing on was kind of destination level tourism.

you build these thriving economics while having these sustainable systems and bringing balance. whenever I saw this job come up in Park City, I did not really expect this job to exist. If I’m being honest, I assumed coming out of grad school that I would be working probably for local government or you know something like that doing planning in that way.

But the fact that this job is with the Visitors Bureau and is so hands-on on, yes, promoting a thriving tourism economy, but also considering the balance in a community was really exciting. was something worth moving for. So that is what dragged me from Texas all the way up here to Utah.

Central Wasatch Commission (04:17)
Wow, well, what an amazing career and the fact that you had so much opportunity during the pandemic to explore something that you’re really passionate about. And what’s your current role at the, is it the chamber of?

Morgan Mingle (04:29)
on

think I’m having bandwidth issues.

Central Wasatch Commission (04:35)
yeah?

Morgan Mingle (04:37)
I can’t hear you at all.

Central Wasatch Commission (04:38)
no! really? Let’s see.

Morgan Mingle (04:42)
⁓ now I got you. I think it’s just delayed though.

Central Wasatch Commission (04:45)
⁓ that’s strange. I wonder, I hope it’s not my wifi.

Morgan Mingle (04:52)
It also could be mine. I mean, I’m in an office with a bunch of people on Wi-Fi too. Yeah, but now I’m… You’re freezing every now and then and I can sometimes see your mouth move like 10 seconds before you start talking.

Central Wasatch Commission (05:06)
okay.

If I talk like this, is it pretty slow?

Morgan Mingle (05:13)
Yeah.

Central Wasatch Commission (05:14)
Wow, okay, good to know. So it’s pretty delayed, okay.

Morgan Mingle (05:25)
I can try turning my camera off.

Central Wasatch Commission (05:28)
Maybe let’s try that and just see if it works a little bit better.

Morgan Mingle (05:32)
Yeah, I’ll see if there’s just

like any awkward pauses.

Central Wasatch Commission (05:37)
Okay, I’ll start saying a sentence and keep going and just let me know if I’m sounding like a robot.

Morgan Mingle (05:44)
I think it’s okay.

Central Wasatch Commission (05:46)
Okay. Okay, let me, what was the last thing you heard?

Morgan Mingle (05:52)
⁓ it was honestly just, it started being weird when you started speaking.

Central Wasatch Commission (06:01)
Okay, so

was it initially when I asked you to introduce yourself? Was it weird then?

Morgan Mingle (06:08)
No, it was after I got done doing the introduce myself part. I noticed when I was talking to you that you were freezing up, so I probably should have, like, in terms of the visuals, so I probably should have expected that maybe things would have been funky, but at least right now when we’re talking, it doesn’t feel like there’s any big delays anymore.

Central Wasatch Commission (06:21)
Okay.

Okay, okay, perfect. Well, I’m gonna go back a little bit and then yeah, just you can even just stop me and be like, hey, I’m sorry, it’s pausing again and then we’ll figure it out. Okay, well, to go back, let’s see, where was I? ⁓ I was gonna say that, well, it sounds like you had an amazing opportunity to…

Morgan Mingle (06:40)
Cool.

Central Wasatch Commission (06:55)
explore passions through education during the pandemic. And now you have this role in Park City, which is amazing. What is your title within your organization again?

Morgan Mingle (07:07)
I’m the Director of Sustainable Tourism.

Central Wasatch Commission (07:09)
Okay, amazing. Well, that’s perfectly aligned with the Central Wasatch. And an additional aspect is that you’re also on our Stakeholders Council. How long have you been a member with the CWC and how did it come about?

Morgan Mingle (07:25)
Yeah, I am. So it’s been, I think about two years now that I’ve been with the CWC. And my introduction to the CWC was actually y’all reaching out and wanting to extend a little bit more into the Wasatch back instead of only the Wasatch front. Yeah, that was awkward.

Central Wasatch Commission (07:50)
No, you’re

totally fine. Yeah, well, we’re and I remember when you first started, I think that you became a member right when I became part of the CWC as well. So I remember meeting you at like, I think it was like the first stakeholders council meeting at the old Mill Creek City Hall.

Morgan Mingle (08:02)
think so.

Mm-hmm. ⁓ that building. That was something.

Central Wasatch Commission (08:13)
Yeah.

Well, today we’re going to be talking about the economic system of the Central Wasatch. And it sounds like you’ve also had experience seeing the tourism side and what it means, and then also being part of the Central Wasatch and specifically the Wasatchback. What do you think in your perspective, like with one of the four interconnected systems?

being economy, can you tell me what this means in the context of the central wasatch based on your expertise?

Morgan Mingle (08:46)
Yeah, I think, you know, with all of the systems that are including in the Central Wasatch and all that it do, everything is interrelated, right? And I think the economy is something that touches all of the other aspects of what the Central Wasatch Commission looks like.

So I feel like the economy in this context, it is, yes, about making sure that businesses are economically viable, but it’s also making sure that tax revenue is generated in a way that’s meaningful to support all of the other initiatives that are happening in the canyons. It means having systems where workforce feel supported and that they can thrive being employed in the canyons. It really kind of covers

all sorts of aspects and I feel like often when people think about economy their brains just go to corporate profits but ultimately it really is about

There is a tourism economic engine and you can’t deny that it exists and it’s not gonna stop. And so how do you manage it and harness it so that businesses continue to be economically viable, but you are generating revenue and generating resources for doing all the other good work in the kingdoms.

Central Wasatch Commission (10:11)
Yeah, so it sounds like there’s a lot of people involved. It’s not just the people who are, the money that’s being generated, it’s also people who are commuting to different places. It’s also the businesses within the canyons and the wasatch back. And yeah, I don’t think that a lot of people really initially think about that when they think about economy. And in relation to the other systems, you touched on how to be sustainable.

How do you think environment relates to economy in that way and how connected they are?

Morgan Mingle (10:47)
Yeah, I mean they’re all super connected. I know up here in Park City so many of the tax revenues and the economics that are generated here is directly put back into proper management of the land. And that’s land that’s both used for recreation but it also is just preserved open space and making sure that we’re continuing to think about supporting these environmental systems because

Truly when you boil it all down, when it comes to economy and if we’re going to be super straightforward and boil down the product that the natural area of the Wasatch Commission has to offer.

The product for visitors is the environment. If it becomes degradated, that is going to impact visitation. It’s gonna impact the economics. There’s so much give and take between these two systems. And it’s not just about businesses quote unquote spoiling or taking from the natural environment. They really do provide those resources to properly manage those spaces. And in return,

Central Wasatch Commission (11:37)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan Mingle (12:02)
that’s the product for people to come and experience and visit is that natural environment. So it’s in everyone’s best interest to make sure that it continues to be supported and thriving and healthy.

Central Wasatch Commission (12:16)
Definitely. And you talked a lot about this specifically with the Wasatch back during your presentation at our Central Wasatch Symposium, the first annual one just in January. Thank you so much for doing that. And I know that you also had a colleague who helped you with that presentation as well. And you discuss a lot of these aspects between the interrelation between economy and also sustainability and moving forward.

Morgan Mingle (12:27)
Mm-mm.

Central Wasatch Commission (12:44)
especially with so many large events that come in to Park City, whether it’s the Sundance Film Festival or it’s a celebration or it’s growing number of people who are loving the skiing in Utah and or they’re loving any type of recreation all year round. And I looked over your presentation, which was just so interesting and well informing. And in your presentation, you

reviewed the 2023 tourism economy impact study for, I think it was just the Wasatch back. And there, you said that there was 22, or 20, no, I’m sorry, not 20, $2.2 billion, 14,798 jobs generated, 18 million visitors, $818 million in wages and $1.6 billion in visitor spending.

with a 7 % increase. That’s so amazing for even just a small portion of the Wasatchback, which generating that much money, I’m sure just impacts Utah so much. When it comes to a lot of this generation, what do you think would happen moving forward if it was going to grow? Does it need to expand? And what does it look like for people who want to come visit as well?

Morgan Mingle (14:10)
Yeah, mean, Park City has just a huge economic engine that is at its center and that is the tourism economy and it does generate

over $2 billion, know, thousands of jobs that are generated as part of this. And those are important jobs to have. It’s the livelihood of so many people that live in the entire central Wasatch area. And it really is a regional system. while that tourism product base is centralized in that Park City area, we have workforce that are commuting from Salt Lake. And I’m actually one of those people that commute from Salt Lake into Park City

from various communities across the Wasatch Back. And so it really is a whole system that supports that thriving economy that just happens to be centered in the Park City area. And I think when you ask about growth,

Central Wasatch Commission (15:02)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan Mingle (15:07)
specifically in the economy, there’s a lot of different ways that we can think about it. And it is really nuanced. So if we’re talking about economic growth, does that necessarily mean more visitors? Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe it could be higher room rates and therefore a growth in revenue from local businesses.

I think a lot of what we focus on when it comes to that thriving tourism economy and supporting being able to maintain such a thriving economy economically is making sure that we’re being really thoughtful about how those visitors are also managed in our community. Because ultimately, eight million visitors a year is a lot. And if you have eight million visitors coming into a community that maybe they don’t know that there’s free easy public transportation.

Maybe they don’t know proper trail etiquette. And I’m not saying that visitors necessarily come in to misbehave in our community. But we wanna make sure that we’re being really thoughtful about how we educate visitors, how we invite them to experience the Park City community like a local.

so that we’re not feeling the effects of visitation as acutely as if we weren’t managing that visitation. Does that make sense?

Central Wasatch Commission (16:29)
Yeah, definitely. It seems like there has to be a balance between growth and inviting more people in, but making sure there are also, like you were saying, education materials and making sure that people understand what impacts the community and how to move forward in a sustainable way. And…

Morgan Mingle (16:49)
That’s so

much of the work that we’re doing too, right, is thinking through.

how we maintain this thriving economy and making sure that businesses of all sizes feel like they can really flourish and making sure that the environment is properly supported and we’re not seeing too much environmental degradation and making sure that local residents and workforce feel like they recognize Park City and that it maintains a lot of the small town character and charm and reasons that they moved to Park City too. So it really is just

about balancing those three things, right, of economy, environment, and the social needs of people that live and work here.

Central Wasatch Commission (17:34)
what would you say to people who think of like an environmental aspect to this interconnected system as some sort of obstacle? I know that there’s a lot of people who focus directly on economy, who almost feel like environment is such a trigger word and they’re almost scared of it. How would you react to someone who

Morgan Mingle (17:54)
Hmm.

Central Wasatch Commission (18:00)
is kind of afraid of the environmental aspect, getting in the way of economic growth or expanding a city or expanding it to something that they think would be its full potential. What would you say to that?

Morgan Mingle (18:10)
Yeah.

I think that it can be helpful to consider the environment, like I was mentioning before, as kind of part of the product that’s being offered. I feel like appropriate, thoughtful, responsible development paired with a thoughtful connection with the environment makes for a better system and a better product altogether. So I think that the two…

can sometimes be thought of as mutually exclusive, but I really don’t think that they are. And I think that if you are being really thoughtful about open space and how development interfaces with the environment, then there’s no reason for them to be combative. Yeah.

Central Wasatch Commission (19:06)
And another part of the economy that I’d love to touch on is in your presentation, you talked about how households making 75,000 or less per year have decreased 17 % since 2010, while those making over $200,000 a year or more have increased by 291%, which is such a large difference. What kind of impact does this have on the economy?

How can you feel this gap can be changed or doesn’t need to change?

Morgan Mingle (19:40)
Yeah, I think this is a problem that’s not unique to Park City. So a lot of mountain communities, a lot of places that do have this very attractive lifestyle or a thriving visitor economy can struggle with affordability. So we’re definitely not alone in this statistic.

Central Wasatch Commission (20:04)
Definitely.

Morgan Mingle (20:06)
And I think when it comes to the impact that it has on the economy, the workforce is often what I think about. And when we’re saying households making 75,000 or less a year, that’s almost definitely tourism, economy, workforce. And we’re seeing more and more workforce have to commute in and out of the community because of a lack of affordability.

Central Wasatch Commission (20:31)
Mm-hmm.

Morgan Mingle (20:32)
And I think it makes it harder for some businesses to able to attract staff to really retain their workforce if they’re having to increase their commute from further away.

I know that there’s a lot of work that’s being done, especially with some of our major employers in Park City, to provide housing that is closer to work and provide transportation to get folks to work without them having to drive or even have their own car. And all of those can help mitigate some of these systems.

Park City Municipal is very invested as well as Summit County in building more affordable housing. And that’s specifically targeted towards making sure workforce that do want to live in the community have the opportunity to. There’s definitely a gap there to be filled, but a lot of good work is being done to prioritize those developments for workforce. And I would say that that is one of the essential pieces of

making sure that this statistic of much higher income earners where lower income workforce are having to live outside the community can be closed. I think there’s one other aspect to this too that is important to acknowledge and that is transportation and transportation systems.

So we’re seeing this workforce that lives outside of the community and commuting into the community. And so that can often mean a lot of cars on a roadway where that really wasn’t happening, you know, 10, 20, 30 years ago when people could actually live in the community that they worked in. And so I think transportation needs to be part of that conversation as well.

know, home prices and rent prices are not going to change in an instant.

But what we can do is be really thoughtful about how we’re developing public transportation and making sure that it is thoughtfully designed. It is not overburdening commuters. So, you know, if you’re asking someone to make the choice between driving 30 minutes or riding a bus for an hour and 45, that’s not a fair choice. So I think a lot of our transportation companies and I really should say

some accounting transportation team, and the other Wasatch-backed are being really thoughtful about connecting where people actually live to where people actually work and making those systems a bit more efficient. So it’s kind of a two-pronged approach, but really focusing on that workforce housing piece and making sure that the transportation is serving the people that need to get into the community.

Central Wasatch Commission (23:30)
It seems like too with the Wasatch back from what you’re saying is that it’s such a almost unique problem and not not problem, but factor of the Wasatch backs economy of focusing on workforce transportation because there is somewhat of this gap between income and also commuters. And this stems into my next question, which is how is the Wasatch back unique?

from the Wasatch front? And I feel like that’s a big factor. But what are other things that you see that are significantly different from the Wasatch front?

Morgan Mingle (24:06)
Yeah, that’s an interesting question. You know, I think in a lot of ways you can draw parallels where both

relatively close to major metropolitan area. A lot of the economy is kind of anchored in winter rec, skiing, snowboard, and there are all these gorgeous natural areas to maintain and develop appropriate infrastructure for recreation. So all of that is similar, right?

But I think there are some unique differences and challenges that each has. When it comes to the Wasatch Back, there is some establishment of full-time permanent housing on the Wasatch Back, sorry, Wasatch Front, I should say, in the canyons. In the Wasatch Front.

But you don’t have a lot of opportunity when it comes to developing workforce houses near the major employers, near the resorts. Whereas in Park City, because it is a full thriving town and community with some disposable land.

it is a bit easier to address that issue of workforce housing, right? Because there’s that space available and there’s that town that is relatively established to be able to provide that housing without, you know, having to tear down something else.

So I think that is definitely something that’s unique with the three canyons on the Wasatch Front. It’s just that availability of housing spaces for workforce. I also think that the Wasatch Front has some unique transportation challenges. We are really lucky in Park City that we have a fully free public transit system for anyone that wants to ride it.

And we also have roads that are wide enough, as well as government entities that have allowed us some flexibility with how to use those roads so that we’ve been able to build these rapid bus lanes where we really needed them.

And in the canyons on the Wasatch Front, those roads are relatively small. And at least currently as they stand, the ability to establish a dedicated bus lane just isn’t really there.

And I think that is a huge draw towards getting transit ridership and decreasing congestion and giving opportunities for workforce to get to work without bringing their car is this idea of you could be in traffic with the rest of the cars or you can be in this priority bus lane and just whiz right past them.

And without that carrot to entice people to make the switch to public transit, it’s really hard to convince people to take that option whenever they’re stuck in traffic with everybody else. So off the bat, I feel like those are two really unique issues between the two.

And we do have two ways in and out of Park City. So we have two major roads to connect to various parts of the Wasatchback, whereas the Wasatchfront, it’s in and out one road. If there’s an issue, you might have a hard time getting to work.

Central Wasatch Commission (27:34)
are such interesting points when it comes to the differences between the two because obviously they’re connected by the beautiful mountain range and I didn’t realize that and is it high valley transit that’s the free? That’s amazing. I think that that is such a good incentive as well as the priority bus lane and and that’s another educational tool to get people to take the bus and I know that some people struggle with

Morgan Mingle (27:47)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Central Wasatch Commission (28:02)
you know, leaving their cars and leaving the car at home and relying on a bus. But those are some really interesting factors and I think such good ways to tackle the commuter problem and making sure that workforce has adequate ways to getting to their place of work. And again, stepping into the next question, which is lovely, the Wasatch Front has been seen as largely separate from the Wasatch Back and they’re

Morgan Mingle (28:24)
Hmm

Central Wasatch Commission (28:31)
again, just divided by this incredible mountain range. But there’s been a lot of push for an exploration for connecting the two. part of that has been the foundation of why the CWC was created based off of discourse about it. In your opinion, how would connecting the Wasatch Front to the Wasatch Back impact the economic systems between one, the other, or both?

Morgan Mingle (28:59)
Yeah, I mean I think it should be said also that the Wasatch front and the Wasatch back are connected in the summer.

Central Wasatch Commission (29:08)
yes, they are, you’re

right.

Morgan Mingle (29:10)
Yeah, so via Guardsman Pass, which is extremely popular for both visitors, workforce, residents that live in the Park City area and throughout the Wasatchback to go up to the Bonanza Flats Guardsman Pass area to recreate. So it’s not unusual actually to see that exchange happening in the summer.

I think it could be interesting. Having those connected in the winter would be a huge paradigm shift. And I think well above my pay grade to talk about how that would truly impact the economy of both. Because there’s a lot of layers to it. There’s an understanding of where transient room tax is going to be allocated when you’re dealing with multiple counties. And then what does that tax fund and if

someone has the opportunity to stay in a hotel in Park City, but go ski for a day at Alta, let’s say. How that could be perceived by the various resources that have invested into communities, invested into systems. Yeah, I don’t really know what kind of impact that would have.

Central Wasatch Commission (30:26)
That’s totally okay. I think that

it’s a very complex question. And so I just wanted to throw it out there and just see. But yeah.

Morgan Mingle (30:34)
Yeah. It is also interesting though, you know, the way that

those two could exchange if ever.

Central Wasatch Commission (30:42)
Yeah, especially in the winter time because obviously as we’ve mentioned before, the ski industry is something that’s so prominent within both the Wasatch Front and Back and I think that that’s like a really big common theme along with other recreation that’s either all year round or just in the summertime and so like what you’re saying, the landscape is the product and…

what other things need to be addressed or forego in order to connect them.

Morgan Mingle (31:15)
It would be interesting as well, just as a thought experiment to explore this idea of, if these major recreation areas are connected, if ever, how is that going to help with attracting workforce that maybe they live in the Wasatchback and they could be interested in working at Snowbird or something like that of how that could even impact how workforce moves through the community and not just tourism and tourism dollars.

Central Wasatch Commission (31:44)
Yeah, exactly. That’s such a good point. when it comes to connecting the way people move between the Wasatch back and the Wasatch front and yeah, not only just tourism, but other aspects of the economy. Yeah, such a complex yet interesting issue and not issue, but topic to discuss and.

Obviously we’ve just been talking about the Wasatch front and back and most of this isn’t contained Salt Lake County, the different towns that lie between the canyons as well as Summit County and Park City. Do you think there are any other places within the central Wasatch that could be included in this economic aspect or could be expanded to in the future?

Morgan Mingle (32:35)
Yeah, I think it would be thoughtful to consider including other communities in the Wasatch Back. We were talking about Garzen Pass earlier and that summer connection that connects Park City to Big Cottonwood Canyon, but that same road also connects to Midway and the Heber Valley area. And so…

those roads already exist, those connections already exist. And so I do think that if there’s consideration to expand what the Central Watch Commission and the Central Watch economy is thinking about, I do think extending it to the Huber Valley could make sense because those roads are already there.

Central Wasatch Commission (33:23)
Yeah.

Morgan Mingle (33:25)
And it’s a beautiful drive. Highly recommended.

Central Wasatch Commission (33:27)
It is

such a beautiful drive. If I ever have a friend visiting from out of town or they’ve never been on the Guardsman Paths drive, I am immediately like, get in the car. We are going. We’re going right now.

Morgan Mingle (33:39)
Hahaha.

Yep.

Central Wasatch Commission (33:44)
Well, for those who want to learn more about maybe your work or the Wasatchback economy or anything revolving around like Park City, is there anything that you suggest for them to learn more or maybe get involved in some way?

Morgan Mingle (33:59)
Yeah, so we have a page on our website that is all focused on responsible visitation. So if someone is interested in coming to Park City and wants to learn how they can help support our economy while maintaining balance, that’s a great place to look. But then we also have a page that’s really specific to sustainable tourism and a lot of the work that I’m doing in terms of economic balance and how we see Park City grow.

and changing in the future and that’s on parkcitychamber.com slash sustainable tourism plan.

That is a developing page, so I will warn you that you’re going to see some changes coming in there, but even right now there are some nice case studies and what we’re working on is developing a data dashboard to be on that page as well and I’m hoping it’ll be live in the next couple months. So fun things coming on the sustainable tourism page at the Chambers website.

Central Wasatch Commission (35:02)
Wow, those are some great resources. I’m really excited to look at them myself and also share them with our listeners. But that concludes our episode today. Thank you so much, Morgan, for coming on the In the Wasatch Podcast.

Morgan Mingle (35:13)
Yeah, of course, this is lovely.